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Do you tell people that you have dyscalculia?





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anxiety attack and panic attacks
mermaid23
#21 Print Post
Posted on February 25 2006 02:53 AM
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I have pretty severe problems with anxiety. The only thing that has worked for me is cognative behavioral therapy. I have also use this kind of therapy for my ADHD as well Smile
 
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Shamarie
#22 Print Post
Posted on February 25 2006 03:30 AM
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actually dialectical behavioral therapy helped me with my anxiety and stress. I'm diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder and DBT has really helped me a lot. In fact I think DBT would help a lot of people in general.
 
PuNitrate
#23 Print Post
Posted on February 25 2006 07:09 AM
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eoffg wrote:
Where by "not stressed", I guess that you mean that it's not a stressful situation, maybe just reading a magazine at home for example?
Though the thing is that anxiety has become associated with numbers, so numbers automatically trigger anxiety?
It's a bit like if you were attacked and severely bitten by a dog as a child? For the rest of your life, whenever you hear the word dog, you will immediately feel anxious.
Where rather than being bitten by a dog, it was more likely from years of abuse from teachers? As well as maybe from friends, relatives and employers?


Hi Geoff Smile

In response to your questions, the answer is yes. When I'm simply reading or writing, I switch numbers, though I'm not inherently afraid of them. I become stressed when I'm placed into a situation where I'm being graded or tested without aids and there is no possibility of correcting mistakes or revising work. Analogously, I feel like I'm being tested on my knowledge of Chinese when (1) I don't read or write fluently; (2) there isn't an adequate English-Chinese-English dictionary. Even though I improve, it's not fast enough for the educational system. It's a mixed feeling of inadequacy and frustration. This leads to the anxiety: what if I really don't know it, that I'm simply pretending? Not only is it due to teachers and others, but it's the situation itself.


PuNo4
 
eoffg
#24 Print Post
Posted on February 25 2006 10:03 AM
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Hi PuNo4Smile,
You raise a most important point, where you write:"Even though I improve, it's not fast enough for the educational system."
This is perhaps the greatest issue facing the education system?

When you write;'not fast enough', this reflects an education system that has defined a specific pace at which learning will occur.
Learning will occur at this pace.
This is a wrong assumption that is the foundation of education systems.
That a 'pace of learning' can be defined?
What it assumes, is that everyone learns in 'exactly the same way'?

This is obviously a wrong assumption, but unfortunately is still the basis of educational practise.
Where it continues with this practise, because it suits their model of Assessment.
It is the model of Assessment that really needs to be re-invented?
A model that recognises a vast variation in the way that each of us learn?
Learning is not a race?
Effective learning needs to be a self-paced exercise, where we are given time to understand what we are learning.
Could you imagine what would happen if we 'Went to School to learn How To Walk?.
That 'Walking' became a subject?
If you dont walk a 100 metres in so many seconds, by a certain age?
Then you have Failed.
Just because you are different, and only have one leg? Is no excuse!
You are just lazy and not trying hard enough.
Where the education system, rather than helping you to learn coping strategies. Finds it easier to class you as a failure, and then ignore you?
Yet I recently heard an interview with a one legged guy who is preparing for a climb of Mt Everest.
Our education systems, use a model that suits only one way of learning, and has devised many ways to ignore all learning differences.
The real frustration, is the inadequacy of our education systems.
Geoff.Smile

 
Tina
#25 Print Post
Posted on February 26 2006 02:17 AM
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Edited by Tina on February 26 2006 02:20 AM
"I couldn't wait for success, so I went ahead without it." ~ Jonathan WintersSmile
 
Tina
#26 Print Post
Posted on February 26 2006 02:17 AM
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I have thought about this many times. What if the shool system had been different, more individualised, and dyscalculia and dyslexia would not be a big deal at all. Anyone with learning disabilities would not have to feel freaky or different, just a part of the mixed crowd of learners. I like your example about learning to walk and what if we took classes to learn that. What if for example art and sports would be part of the main subjects in school and our future would depend upon how well we would do in those areas...who and how many would fail then? What mental 'disability' would cover an 'inability' to achieve great results in art or sports? How many would be prevented to go to medical school because they failed the 'art-test'? Well, that might sound funny, but that's what a dyscalculic encounter when he or she wants to apply to for example an art school. Math is required everywhere, it doesn't matter if we have high grades in other subjects. I'm amazed that so many people pass through our current narrow school system. "LD's" have so much to contribute with in society, but we always have to fight get the chance to prove that we can. Exhausting.
Edited by Tina on February 28 2006 08:00 AM
"I couldn't wait for success, so I went ahead without it." ~ Jonathan WintersSmile
 
PuNitrate
#27 Print Post
Posted on February 27 2006 08:44 AM
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eoffg wrote:

Learning is not a race?
Effective learning needs to be a self-paced exercise, where we are given time to understand what we are learning.
Could you imagine what would happen if we 'Went to School to learn How To Walk?.
That 'Walking' became a subject?
If you dont walk a 100 metres in so many seconds, by a certain age?
Then you have Failed.
Just because you are different, and only have one leg? Is no excuse!
You are just lazy and not trying hard enough.
Where the education system, rather than helping you to learn coping strategies. Finds it easier to class you as a failure, and then ignore



Hi Geoff Smile

I love the analogy--it's so true.

Children, particularly LD kids, would do better in a montessori/individualized program. At least, I would have. Unfortunately, due to nation-wide budget cuts and generally unsupportive attitudes toward education, the American system will remain the same for generations.

Most importantly, what has to change is people's subconscious bigotry toward other groups and the unexplained. Timed testing is an interesting point you bring up; it has been a recent issue in the Physics department at my university. The older generation--the men who received their doctorates prior to 1975--believe that it is NECESSARY to create extremely long and difficult exams. Why? In the words of one of these professors: "I purposely do it because it's about how fast you can do it. If you can't perform, you probably don't belong here." Perform to what expectation? I don't know of any physicist in the real world who would pride him/herself on how FAST he/she can calculate a problem as much as obtain correct and accurate results. Some research projects take YEARS to develop. The last part of his statement is the most telling; it's not simply about cookie-cutter education as it is a systematic process of determining who should do what. It's a vicious cycle: if a student with LD makes it, he or she "cheated" or received "special help;" if a student struggles, he or she is an idiot. Attitudes are changing, especially within younger generations, but unfortunately the dinosaurs still run the system. I'm not sure why societies cling to these stereotypes except out of ignorance or out of fear. The same professor told me that I should quit researching answers and solutions to problems and just focus on the exams.

I think it's more about convincing the system that LD students are ignorant rather than attempting to convince us.


PuNo4
 
IAN
#28 Print Post
Posted on February 27 2006 09:07 PM
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Hi PuNitrate,
Just been reading some of your posts, and I really see where you're coming from, namely the fact that 'society' seems only to equate learing with speed! Your comment about the physicist I totally agree with. The problem for me has always been my perceived 'slowness' to grasp new things; This in itself led me to teach myself to play both electric and accoustic guitar when I reached 16 yrs of age. The thing I loved about it (apart from the fact that I was and still am a music nut!) was that it was something I was doing for myself at my own pace, without feeling under pressure from a teacher; I used a few books but never bothered reading conventional music notation but I used just enough theory to enable me to develop techniques and patterns/sequences used in playing blues/rock(a style more rooted in feel anyway) in an almost subconcious way; in fact when I try to think logically about any practical matter is when my brain seems to do something akin to a short circuit! Every thing gets all jumbled up and I can't see the wood for the trees- eg mental arithmetic!
 
eoffg
#29 Print Post
Posted on February 28 2006 09:06 AM
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Hi PuN and IAN Smile,
The real difference about 'speed'?
Is the difference between Knowing and Understanding?
To demonstrate what you 'know', is a retrieval of Facts from your memory.
Where the speed of retrieving facts from your memory, is equal to how quick can you find this in an encyclopedia.
How quick you can find it, is pointless?
Real learning is about 'Understanding', which is an ongoing process.
The deeper your understanding, the longer that it will probably take to explain it?
In fact, the quicker response, probably demonstrates a lesser understanding?
PuN, I would suggest that the lecturers that you wrote about, try to set exam papers that they can 'tick right or wrong' as they go through it?
It's the most simple way to make an assessment.
To read Students exam papers to see if they understood what they have learnt, takes more time.
But even worse, it means that they have to think?
It can also expose the fact that they are not up to date with current research/ understanding?
Geoff.Smile




 
PuNitrate
#30 Print Post
Posted on March 01 2006 05:57 AM
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Location: Montana, U.S.A.
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IAN wrote:
The problem for me has always been my perceived 'slowness' to grasp new things; This in itself led me to teach myself to play both electric and accoustic guitar when I reached 16 yrs of age. The thing I loved about it (apart from the fact that I was and still am a music nut!) was that it was something I was doing for myself at my own pace, without feeling under pressure from a teacher; I used a few books but never bothered reading conventional music notation but I used just enough theory to enable me to develop techniques and patterns/sequences used in playing blues/rock(a style more rooted in feel anyway) in an almost subconcious way


Hi Ian Smile

Your comments about learning music are really interesting and definitively show that speed isn't everything. That's awesome that you are able to do that.

Additionally, it seems to be a general concensus that independent study is the best way to teach dyscalculics. I can definitely relate to your example. Currently, I'm involved in an independent study course/research to develop a theoretical model of neutron star interiors. When I can apply the math, I learn and retain more than in a traditional, theory class. What's really nice is that I can conceptualize the problem before attempting the math and I'm not graded on one particular solution method. (The physicist I quoted earlier doesn't teach it, either. Wink )

If only our schools and universities would allow students to do independent research!


PuNo4
 
Tina
#31 Print Post
Posted on March 01 2006 06:16 AM
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I find it's easier to self study and work independetly, and I've always accomplished more that way.
Edited by Tina on March 01 2006 06:17 AM
"I couldn't wait for success, so I went ahead without it." ~ Jonathan WintersSmile
 
PuNitrate
#32 Print Post
Posted on March 01 2006 06:26 AM
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Location: Montana, U.S.A.
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eoffg wrote:
In fact, the quicker response, probably demonstrates a lesser understanding?
PuN, I would suggest that the lecturers that you wrote about, try to set exam papers that they can 'tick right or wrong' as they go through it?
It's the most simple way to make an assessment.
To read Students exam papers to see if they understood what they have learnt, takes more time.
But even worse, it means that they have to think?
It can also expose the fact that they are not up to date with current research/ understanding?
Geoff.Smile


Hi Geoff--

I agree that the use of objective speed testing is probably their most expedient process of determining knowledge. However, I think your last comment hits the nail on the head. Part of it is that the dinosaurs lag behind on the current theories and research, so they reject anything outside their realm of understanding. During a research presentation I gave on neutron stars a few months ago, I mentioned how the surface/"crust" cracks analogously to an earthquake on Earth as the interior releases stress. One of the emeritus professors (guy received his Ph.D sixty years ago), asked me what I meant by "crack." One can imagine some of the jokes among the physics students regarding that one. Grin

Also, the field of Physics has enjoyed an elevated status. I don't know about Australia or other parts of the world, but at a typical American university, the number of entering Physics majors is low, maybe two to five percent of all majors maximum, and of these students, only fifty percent graduate with a bachelor's degree. Fewer students advance to graduate studies. The probability of any diversity among academics and industrialists is understandably low. However, "lesser fields," (i.e., experimental science) such as Astronomy and Chemistry, have a higher rate of dyslexics and dyscalculics in their population. I've met at least two professors/professionals in Astronomy who have a learning difference. They are top scientists within their specialized fields, but needless to say, they failed timed exams.

PuNo4
 
IAN
#33 Print Post
Posted on March 01 2006 11:28 PM
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Hi PuNitrate;
Thanks for your reply; I forgot to mention that when I was about 12 years of age, I started learning to play the trumpet at school. This was with a music teacher, and I was learning to read music in the formal sense. After a couple of years i packed this in, because it was getting to be just like my maths classes! I did gasp some of the principles of music notation, but then it just got too much, and of couse the teacher was pushing me all the time!
During this short lived period, I always found it easer to follow the music notation if I had heard at least some of the piece bofore hand; the notes then seemed to have meaning. But just purely playing a piece by sight that I'd never heard before seemed robotic! As I mentioned previously, when I took up guitar, I took a totally different approach.
This is really analogous to my learning process on a general level. With most things, I have to involve a hands on process first, then refering to written theory/instruction when I get stuck, other wise I can not visualise how the theory is working!
What I mean by this is that theory to me only makes sense when I see the result of the theory (hope that makes sense!!)
Mind you, i suppose in relation to music, why peeple like Mozart and Beethoven were genius, was because they could mentally 'hear' the notes coming off the page as they wrote them!
 
mermaid23
#34 Print Post
Posted on March 03 2006 06:51 PM
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Tina wrote:
I have thought about this many times. What if the shool system had been different, more individualised, and dyscalculia and dyslexia would not be a big deal at all. Anyone with learning disabilities would not have to feel freaky or different, just a part of the mixed crowd of learners. I like your example about learning to walk and what if we took classes to learn that. What if for example art and sports would be part of the main subjects in school and our future would depend upon how well we would do in those areas...who and how many would fail then? What mental 'disability' would cover an 'inability' to achieve great results in art or sports? How many would be prevented to go to medical school because they failed the 'art-test'? Well, that might sound funny, but that's what a dyscalculic encounter when he or she wants to apply to for example an art school. Math is required everywhere, it doesn't matter if we have high grades in other subjects. I'm amazed that so many people pass through our current narrow school system. "LD's" have so much to contribute with in society, but we always have to fight get the chance to prove that we can. Exhausting.


I am currently working within the education system as an LD tutor now and I wonder about this every day! Try to remember that grade school isn't about learning it is about assimilation and creating good factory workers who just follow orders and never question anything. If you are different in any way, you are going to have a horrible time! I have been trying to think of ways to combat this, but it is really hard! The whole system is set up in a way that every child/adult must compare/rate themselves agaist everyone else. It is really sad!
 
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rock-it
#35 Print Post
Posted on March 21 2006 11:45 PM
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So... I am new here as of 5 minutes ago, but this tread caught my eye. I miss out on a lot of fun stuff with my friends - poker night, mostly, and casino outings, too - because playing cards nearly makes me black out from anxiety. It's pretty scary being the only dyscalculic I know, especially because not even my fiance really understands.

Anyhow, this thread caught my eye because I am about to leave for a final in my "remedial" college algebra class... a class I am taking for the second time because an anxiety attack hit me during the last time I took the final. I understood all the concepts, but I couldn't make them work. At the same time, I was having one of those fun "8? 3? 5? 9? Octopus?" moments where I felt so dumb, I was in tears. So, I'm heading off to that final again. The one difference is this stuff called "Rescue Remedy," which is a homeopathic treatment for temproary anxiety and traumatic incidents. At least this time I can chill a little more if everything starts swimming.

Wish me luck!
 
PuNitrate
#36 Print Post
Posted on March 31 2006 06:44 PM
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rock-it wrote:
So... I am new here as of 5 minutes ago, but this tread caught my eye. I miss out on a lot of fun stuff with my friends - poker night, mostly, and casino outings, too - because playing cards nearly makes me black out from anxiety. It's pretty scary being the only dyscalculic I know, especially because not even my fiance really understands.

Anyhow, this thread caught my eye because I am about to leave for a final in my "remedial" college algebra class... a class I am taking for the second time because an anxiety attack hit me during the last time I took the final. I understood all the concepts, but I couldn't make them work. At the same time, I was having one of those fun "8? 3? 5? 9? Octopus?" moments where I felt so dumb, I was in tears. So, I'm heading off to that final again. The one difference is this stuff called "Rescue Remedy," which is a homeopathic treatment for temproary anxiety and traumatic incidents. At least this time I can chill a little more if everything starts swimming.

Wish me luck!


Welcome, Fellow Traveler of the Northwest Smile

We all understand the anxiety and even hell it is to sit through an exam while trying to argue with your own mind. Keep in mind that it isn't hopeless and that YOU DO KNOW IT, regardless of what some idiot test says. (But we know it doesn't diminish the frustration.)

Hang in there and let us know how it went!

PuNo4
 
ert
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Posted on April 01 2006 08:57 PM
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Hi rock-it, welcome and good luck Grin
 
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Tonka
#38 Print Post
Posted on May 18 2006 07:09 PM
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Anxiety attacks? Yes, Ive had them. When your confronted with a problem that shows you inabilities to peers it can be quit stressful. You are worring about being judged, failing, being inept. If possible I try to remove myself for a time out, get away from the issue, take a breath. But I know this is not always possible.
 
seeta_ji
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Posted on June 08 2006 04:25 PM
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Newbie here...kind regards to everyone.Smile

I totally agree with what everyone is saying. And don't even get me started on this anxiety thing! I'd beg my mother to let me stay home whenever I have Math tests, and on some days we'd just have the subject Maths for a whole day!! It got so bad that my grades went from average to zero and I mean 0!! Maybe then my mother had to come to terms that something serious was going on with me. But just like me she was helpless and didn't know what to do.

I was really interested in what IAN said about the music. I had that same problem as well, I love Music, i love hearing the piano and my hands just itch to play something on it. I took music lessons, but later dropped out bcuz the same problem was reaccuring, the teacher wondered why I even joined. But determinded to play something my sister bought me a toy piano and I memorized the different key sounds to Fur Elise and now i can play the first part of the song. Couldn't firgure out the rest though. But just lately i found some info about learning how to play intruments by ear. Thats what i did in order to play that song, but i was going about it the wrong way, so i asked my Dad to order a keyboard for me online and i'm gonna take another shot at it!!Pfft
They laugh at me because I'm different...I laugh at them because they're all the SAME!
...*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*...
~*Seeta*~
 
seeta_ji
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Posted on June 08 2006 04:43 PM
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I talked to one of my frends about my having dyscalculia, and how scared i was about telling anyone else. He was really shocked and i had to send him some info about dyscalculia cuz he didn't know what it was. I told him that I was afraid that i'd loose all my frends if they found out.
He told me that he isn't my frend bcuz of what i can't do, but he likes me bcuz of what I CAN do. And he told me to think for a while about the things that i'm really talented at...i'm a self-taught artist, might be a musician some day, I write really good stories even though my vocab isnt very large, and also the most important thing he reminded me of is my big heart.
By the end of all that i was almost in tears,Grin but it did make me think a lot. If I think more about the things I can do, no matter how little it is, it can really take my mind off of the anxiety....And this is what i started doing, if someone tell me; "ur stupid!" I'd think; "I bet he can't draw as good as me!! HA HA!!!"

A lot of people tell me i'm talented and my mother told me that i might be this way for life, but in reality, I have many gifts that other people can only dream about.....
They laugh at me because I'm different...I laugh at them because they're all the SAME!
...*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*...
~*Seeta*~
 
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