Hello to all Forum-Users !
After all the troubles of tears, anger, shouting, misunderstanding, despair and helplessness, we found help and a given name of this phenomenon.
My daugther is now 8 years old and always loved math (first homework done). This changed after the magic-nummer 10 !
I ask the teacher why we are having so much math-homework-problems and find myself being calmed down. It did not stop at home. The teacher gave me a printout of Dyscalculia from Wikipedia which didn`t help me back then. This was going on for half a year !!! I think the teacher himself is as helpless as I was before. Now I know I`d better be listen to me feelings as a mother and being more patiently with my child. We could saved a long time
Now we know the problem and getting help from a Dyscalculia-Therapist once a week. She can finally calculate plus and minus inbetween 10.
Dear parents: NEVER GIVE UP ON YOUR CHILD !
It would be nice to hear from other parents with young children.
Kind regards, Countess
'You should really be sympathetic to people who suffer 'Normalism' (Geoff)
My Child (born 97) has Dyscalculia
Sorry for any spelling mistakes ;-)

Location: Australia Posts: 1272 Joined: 2005-03-20

Hi Countess, and welcome to the Forum!
You write that the your Daughter loved maths until it came to the magic number 10?
This is a most important issue, where I'll add some quotes from a research paper by Joan A Cotter, which looks at the difference between the Asian and Western approach to Maths:

"Language

A difference is that of naming numbers. Most Asian languages refer to 23, for example, as "2-ten 3" and 67 as "6-ten 7." In English the quantity ten has three names, ten, -teen and -ty. Another confusion are the numbers, 11-19; words eleven and twelve seem to make no sense and for the numbers from 13 to 19, the order is reversed with the ones stated before the tens. All European languages have some irregularities in naming numbers."

So we have this confusion at the basic level of the words that represent numbers.

Related to this, is understanding numbers as 'groups'? Where the above Asian approach, where 23 is spoken as '2 ten 3' highlights a different way of speaking and thinking numbers.
The following quote, also shows how the Asian approach to learning Maths, is to begin by learning numbers as groups!
Not as 1,2,3,4, and so on in the Western model?

"Visualization vs. Counting

Another major difference is the view of counting. In the U.S. counting is considered the basis of arithmetic; children engage in various counting strategies: counting all, counting on, and counting back. Conversely, Japanese children are discouraged from counting; they are taught to recognize and visualize quantities in groups of fives and tens. Children using counting, which is slow and often unreliable, to add and subtract develop a unitary concept of number. For example, they think of 14 as 14 ones, not as 1 ten and 4 ones. Such thinking interferes with understanding carrying and borrowing in larger numbers.

To understand the importance of visualization, try to see mentally 8 apples in a line without any grouping--virtually impossible. Now try to see 5 of those apples as red and 3 as green; the vast majority of people can form the mental image. The Japanese employ this sub-base of 5 to make quantities between 6 and 10 easily imaginable. Thus, 8 is seen as 5 and 3. "
So that instead of beginning by learning numbers one by one.
It begins by learning numbers as groups.

So that it reverses the way numbers are learnt?

13 = 8 + 5.

Not; 8 + 5 = 13.

Anyway Countess, perhaps you can let me know if this made any sense to you?
Geoff.

Hi Geoff !
Yes it makes perfect sense to me. The numbers in german are spocken not understable for dyscalkulian people. Example: 23 ist spocken Three and Twenty. So mixing them up is easy (here 32).
There was once was a "organisation" with the name 20/1 spoken twentyone. In english correct, but in german "totally unexceptable" by the germans. Im so ashamed to be one . For me personally : NO PROBLEM !
Im still on the look-out for german celabrity`s and never give up.
Best regards from "good old Germany"
Countess
'You should really be sympathetic to people who suffer 'Normalism' (Geoff)
My Child (born 97) has Dyscalculia
Sorry for any spelling mistakes ;-)

Location: Australia Posts: 1272 Joined: 2005-03-20

Hi Countess !
Thanks for that, it was very interesting as I can only count to ten in German.
If 23 is spoken backwards; Three and Twenty.
For a much longer number, like 1,245, 723.
Then it must be spoken backwards as well?

My question is, if you wrote down the long number 1,235,723 as someone spoke it to you in German.
Do you begin writing it from the three or the one? As it is spoken.
Or wait to hear the whole number before writing it.
From left to right, or right to left?

But also, if 23 is spoken three and twenty. From right to left.
What happens when you speak a Telephone Number?
Do you start with the last or first number?
Right to left, or left to right?

Hi Geoff !
The number 1.235.723 is spoken in German like :
one million, twohundred five and thirty thousend, sevenhundred three and twenty. (Puhhh it`s quiet difficult to translate in such way) So the "backwards" part is always in the numbers from 13 till 99. I usually write down numbers after I heard them and from left to right.
Telephone Numbers are spelt in both ways. Like saying 1 2 3 4 5 or like 12 34 5 or even 123 45.

As you can see, the german language is not so "friendly" and understandable for dyscalculic persons, they easyly mix it up and write down 85 for a 58.

Best regards from Countess

PS: Are you a dyscalculic person ? How old are you ? Please forgive me my curiosity

'You should really be sympathetic to people who suffer 'Normalism' (Geoff)
My Child (born 97) has Dyscalculia
Sorry for any spelling mistakes ;-)

Location: Australia Posts: 1272 Joined: 2005-03-20

Hi Countess!
Thanks for the information. I emailed a Belgian friend, and it seems that it is the same in Flemish and probably Dutch.
I think that language causes a lot of problems with Maths.
It would make more sense in english, to have tenty one and tenty two, than eleven and twelve. Or maybe onety one and onety two ?
Also I don't have Dyscalculia, and I am 51.
I was a school teacher briefly, though I had viral encephalitis, which caused some brain damage. Made me a bit disorganised. So I retired from teaching and ever since I have been involved with research and study into Learning Difficulties.
Geoff.